Curse

Xenex Xclame · Jul 06, 2007, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Nebuchadnezzer , has it correct i think.
I can remember way back when pvp was the thing you were aiming for cause it seemed so clear that ,that is what the game was trying to make us do, we do pve and get gear/skills and when we have everything we need we go do pvp.

Also I'm very sure this was "unofficially" said by them, but of course i wont be able to find that source cause theres thousands of pages to look thru and Anet , or at least alex knows this and thats why he answered with that.

The reason they moved away from the pve is the training towards pvp kind of mentality is because they saw that there were people that ONLY wanted to pvp or ONLY pve and did not care a rats behind about the other side and that way of thinking of the community has gotten bigger and bigger.There was no way that they would be able to keep them together anymore.

Also think about it , it also makes lots of sense in Cash, you have 2 sides ( 3 if you want to count the people that like pve and pvp) ,So basicly theres 3 different types of people to get to buy your game.

You have the ones that only want pve, which will buy all the chapters.
You also conveniently ,leave the pvp in that cause if people do like it afterwards but you can maybe get them to buy the pvp packs.

You have the ones that only want pvp, which will buy the pvp packs.

*If this option didn't exist you could lose people that like this game,but only want pvp but have found it somewhere else so they decide that because GW doesnt have that option, they have to go to that other game to get what they want*

Again if these persons decide they want to do pve afterwards, they will be buying the chapters.

No, im not saying it was about money, im saying Anet had to adept their ideas because things didn't go as they planned, or new things that they hadn't thought about were happening and they had to adapt.

cR4zY-n^ · Jul 06, 2007, 10:49 AM // 10:49

I thought it's just another "I'm bored and Imma cry this game became boring etc." post but this guy has very good point eventho it's too depressive (for him) in a parts.

Some interesting points like I stated and ANet's guys might check it out.

Tijger · Jul 06, 2007, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzer

If you look at the ORIGINAL layout of Prophecies you have to agree that the game was first designed to be more about the pvp then pve. The Ascension missions are based on HA objective maps. Dunes - Altar holding, Thirsty-- Annihilation with priest, Elona -- Relic running, also guess what used to happen right when you finished Ascension? BOOM you warp right next to ToPK back when that was the pvp area. This obviously shows an incentive to get people into PvP. Also, why all the pve arenas? Ascalon, Yaks, LA(way back when), Droks (also way back when). Why would they implement these things in pve areas if not to get people into pvp? Also when you go pre to post, guess what you do? The pvp mission.

Let me offer two answers to the above, one is that a game doesnt need to be designed for one thing only, the fact it wasnt designed as a PvP game doesnt mean it was designed for PvE only, I think you are being too absolute here. AFAIK GW was designed with both PvP and PvE in mind, it was also designed to be balanced from the start.

The 2nd answer is more a question, why do you see the examples you mention as being PvP designed? Could it also not be that it was a PvE design which found its way into PvP play?

Quote:

I know the game has obviously taken a turn to be more focused on pve now. Which is something I'd rather not happen, but it's not like i can just fake that it isn't.

Well, 2 years ago the devs seemed to focus more on PvP then on PvE, perhaps they sought to redress that imbalance?
Quite honestly, I rarely do PvP anymore and I never was much of a PvP player anyway, I do still enjoy the game very much and every time I come back to it after playing other games my appreciation for its longevity and the work the devs still put in grows.

Quote:

If guild wars was based on PvE at the start, the main spearhead of their work wouldn't have gone into GvG Championships, PvP style gameplay and balance methods. You wouldn't hold pvp championships for a pve game, would you?

No, you also wouldnt create new campaigns for a PvP game, now would you?

This harks back to the earlier point, GW was, perhaps even too ambitiously, designed to have both PvP and PvE and there are strong links between the two and that is by design, not accident.

Try not seeing GW too one-dimensional, PvE doesnt need to exclude PvP nor does a game have to be designed for one or the other exclusively.
Whether such an amalgam works is another question but I think GW proves that it can be done.

Nebuchadnezzer · Jul 06, 2007, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Honestly, the way the game is set up, I think the only way to get a good balance going in pvp and pve, without people going crazy of balances, is to have 2 different skill sets. Same names and concepts but different effects in the two areas. It seems pve people want to be able to explode things, and pvp people want balanced skills that arent overpowered.. having one skillset for these two games isnt working to well X_X I hope the new pve only skills will help further this idea, if not for GW1 maybe for GW2. :x

Edit** 6 am ftl

Lagg · Jul 06, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Emo Kid

That made me giggle.

Hehe.

But you're right, of course.

This game is but a shadow of the utter brilliance Guild Wars was pre-Factions.

And that's coming from the PvE-end of the spectrum.

Sorrow's Furnace was a fun update, but what we really should've gotten for high-end PvE were additional Realms of the Gods (ToA areas).

Instead, we got a whole new campaign, with less than satisfactory high-end content (The Deep is okay, Urgoz' Warren is absolute rubbish).

Then we got yet another campaign with absolutely no high-end PvE, except for the silly Realm of Torment.

Then after a while we got this thing called DoA, which uses environment effects and monster skills to such a degree that most classes can't even play. Let alone have fun. Yeah, it's the last good place to farm since loot scaling. That's it.

And with all the nerfs that have happened to farming, I still can't help but wonder why they simply didn't get rid of the 105/55 builds, in other words, limit Protective Spirit so that it can only reduce up to a maximum of, say, -30 damage or so, which would still make it perfectly workable in any situation except farming.

But 55'ing isn't the only thing that got farming nerfed.

Skills like Shadow Form did too. Why does it even exist?

If you don't want people to farm, don't give them the tools to do it.

Bottom line:

Great game which was updated and nerfed to a watered down state.

Still a good game, though, and a place where I've made lots of friends through the intertubes.

I hope Eye of the North will bring new Realms of the Gods and Guild Wars 2 will ultimately reset the standard.

Better luck next game.

-Loki- · Jul 06, 2007, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Emo Kid

What happens after GW:EN? A year after, are we getting another expansion? GW2 is at least 2 years, if not more, off, so what will hold this game together for that period?

You could always, I dunno, play something else for a while? Guild Wars isn't the only game in existence.

Twinsoul · Jul 06, 2007, 11:38 AM // 11:38

Ragequit life, etc.

Really, if you don't want to play GW, don't play GW. I know plenty of people (my entire alliance) who enjoy the game just the way it is, and we would rather not have to deal with people constantly whining about how their life is over now that skill x was nerfed or build y is too good. Making statements about "Guild Wars falling apart.." only shows why we pay so little attention to people like you. We play for fun. We enjoy the game.

Divinus Stella · Jul 06, 2007, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Agree with the OP, lots of broken things being ignored.

Just ignore all the "pVp aRE n00Bs" replies, most are by people who fail at both PvE and PvP.

Theus · Jul 06, 2007, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Guild Wars suffered what most good online games suffer.

Retarded game updates.

Zorgy · Jul 06, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

GW is two years old

a baby wtf

what can you expect from a two years old kid ? .....not to sheet anymore LOL in its pants & ask proudly to the Mom: "bathroom..."

Lets grow up GW quietly folks

the DEVS have awesome creativity, the business model is original & not that greedy in this greedy WORLD

GWEN is a GW² teaser & we will see, be confident in Anet, they are real good compared to others

What are the vast majority of video game devs doing at the moment ?

They work hand in hand with graphic chips creators, they UPDATE their graphic engines in order to reach the new GC possibilities & finaly give us old jokes to play with. Have a look at the video games market & tell me what is NEW & CREATIVE?....Diablo2 & soon Diablo3

...Fallout3

...Oblivion (zero compared to Morrowind)...do you want more ??????

Anet WILL DO IT........I believe it just cause they are gamers like us

+ they are the BEST & they want to create The Online Game + without monthly fee wtf

Since I play GW (may 2005) I only BOUGHT Oblivion & uninstalled it after dropping Azura Sword & closing 6 Oblivion Gates.

I am happy to give Anet XX€ to play GWEN et will buy GW² as soon as it is released.

Congrats Anet

Tijger · Jul 06, 2007, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Guild Wars suffered what most good online games suffer.

Retarded game updates.

Yeah, sucks to get stuff like SF added to a game or tons of skills...lets all go back to 2 years ago without SF and the Titan missions and Ascalon arena with lv2 toons with AL 80 armor

darktyco · Jul 06, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

I think a lot of the negative responses I see people posting here are missing the point that the OP was trying to make. I think it is obvious the original poster loves to play GW, and wants to continue playing GW. The problem he is stating is that the state of the PvP game has been getting worse and worse, with no end in sight.

Everyone that is just responding with posts blasting this guy as a whiner must not have even read his post and show very little maturity. I only PvP very casually, so I can't agree or disagree, but at least I can read a post and consider someone's viewpoint without posting comments that make me look like an 10 year old.

Blackhearted · Jul 06, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

Quote:

Implement districts for those who have certain ranks. I'm Rank 10, I want to play with people who have at least Rank 9, make a district that requires Rank 9 to enter. Make districts that have no requirement, Rank 3 as a requirement, etc., so players can play with those of their rank and skill level, then keep the original International Districts. Skill can come with experience, I can say this for myself, and just being an overall competent player will help anyone improve. Those who can play at the level that will allow them to win will shine above the rest and continue to move up.

So explain to me how essentially promoting rank elitism will help the game when stuff like that is a bit of what hurts it.

NoChance · Jul 06, 2007, 12:54 PM // 12:54

It is often said that the card game Magic: the Gathering was one of the major influences for GW...

well, I think that Anet missed one of the most important aspects of Magic -- that cards (skills in the case of GW) expire after a time -- each set of cards can only be used for a set amount of time ...

this is a huge plus for Magic because it allows the developers to be more bold in making cards/skills, it allows them to try new ideas, and go in new directions -- it keeps the game fresh, and there's no burden of having to balance new cards/skills with all past cards/skills (which as we have seen in GW is impossible).

because Anet didn't go this way, they eventually ended up with so many skills that they are unable to balance them. Also, they are forced to keep tinkering with old skills in order to balance the game. People don't like unpredictable change to things that they are already used to. Also, it has caused a lot of complacency in the players, where we just wait for nerfs instead of coming up with counters ourselves.

I can go on and on here, but that's what I think is one of the biggest mistakes that Anet has made. (Another mistake was the creation of new professions that don't expire -- again making balance a nightmare... look at Magic.. they've got their 5 colors (= "core professions") since the beginning and will never add a permanent 6th color)

Magic has been around and successful for a long time (almost twenty years).
I recommend Anet regularly read the articles on magicthegathering.com... especially those about design/development (for example Mark Rosewater's articles)... I feel they can really learn a lot. If I were Anet, I would try to hire some of Magic's designer/developers.

garethporlest18 · Jul 06, 2007, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Well it's easy. GW ruined their game with updates. Yes they put a lot of great things out..but was that to sugarcoat their mistakes because they think they're doing the right thing?

Hmm only they know. But it's not going to stop me from talking against what I don't feel is right.

I'm not a PvPer, and even I know that PvP is messed up. I have friends who pvp and well by their discontent I could tell and by the guilds and people who quit. The ones I don't see in HA or GvG anymore. I wonder where they went?

Problem is though people just want to take what they can get and ask for no more, when it's your total right. Why is it? Because you already paid them. Who gives a rats ass that we don't have to pay, I don't care what they give us, if they didn't they'd lose customers so it doesn't really matter.

I do like Guild Wars (just not the bunch of weaklings who seem to come in and stand up for them, instead of themselves) and I want to see it stay alive somewhat. But I'm not going to hold back on the fact that they made mistakes they could have avoided or can fix now but won't. Also they won't fix skills that need to be fixed and unfix skills that didn't need to be fixed.

I'll end up staying whether I like it or not, simply because I want to talk to people and try to enjoy something that used to be amazing. But that don't mean I'm gonna be quiet about what I don't like that they have every ability to fix and don't. Course that's just my opinion and not the majority I'm sure, because they're playing the game having fun with what they get, instead of what they could have if they tried hard enough.

chikorita23 · Jul 06, 2007, 12:57 PM // 12:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat Emo Kid

They exploit overpowered skills, repeatedly.

To name a few:

Wielder's Strike ~ 126 damage with a weapon spell
Ancestor's Rage ~ 137 damage
Spirit Rift ~ 142 damage

Notice that these skills are from Ritualist Spike. Now, with 7 or 8 spikes each using one of these skills, your totals are:

Wielder's Strike ~ 1,008 damage
Ancestor's Rage ~ 1,016 damage
Spirit Rift ~ 1,136 damage

Spirit Rift >> you don't instantly deal dmg to your target, I've dodge numbers of Spirit Rift in PvP! (Unless they slow/cripple you, or you been surrounded by warriors etc.)

Also don't forgot these dmg will be reduce depends on your class-armor!! And GW has all kind of way to counter your target or negate the dmg!

Examples: Protective Spirit, Life Sheath, All kinds of Armor Enchantments etc.

There are skills that are overly-nerf! And overly power.... but definitelly not the above 3 rt spells.

Beside, I think someone compare GW to WoW skills?
WoW skill lists are just not my favour... they repeat the skills but with different lv!!! (that's just cheap in my opinions) I love how GW work.... lots of lots of lots of skills, but nothing is overly god-like powerful, and u can always counter every skills. GW may not be 100% perfect, but every game have flaws.

Mordakai · Jul 06, 2007, 01:00 PM // 13:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by chikorita23

GW may not be 100% perfect, but every game have flaws.

Nuff said.

How many other games offer cash prizes for PvP?

Sword · Jul 06, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Your post looked long and dauting to read as I am very tired atm. But I did see mention of HA and broken skills / builds.

Anets attention to gamer response and lack of followthru on fixing broken skills is laughable.

Nearly every players despises the changes to HA - and anet does nothing, tons of players have quit, no response from anet.

If anet thinks that GW2 is going to do even remotely well they are mistaken. The lack of attentivness to the community turns players completely off the game, builds are broken and people have less fun - and anet expects that the sequel to this game will sell copies...doubtfully.

Nebuchadnezzer · Jul 06, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Nuff said.

How many other games offer cash prizes for PvP?

Uhm.. every big competitive pvp game out there? O.o

Sword · Jul 06, 2007, 01:07 PM // 13:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

How many other games offer cash prizes for PvP?

have u even played another popular intenet game? Most popular internet games have big tournaments (much bigger than gw and bigger rewards). Even alot of the less popular games have smaller tournaments with prizes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzer

Uhm.. every big competitive pvp game out there? O.o

drat - beat me to it - shouldnt have been posting another forum